He thinks the only way to successfully eliminate the gangs is by continuing with the EU accession process and becoming a member of the bloc. Tayyar says foreign intelligence services have some connections to the Ergenekon gang. In an interview with Sunday's Zaman, Tayyar elaborates on his book and the Ergenekon gang.
In your book you describe the Ergenekon gang as similar to an elephant. Can you expand on this for us?
How you describe an elephant varies depending on where you are viewing it from. I tried to look at the all the events between the years 2002 and 2007 and search for the connections between them. For me Ergenekon is a structure targeting the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) and the EU process and using all kinds of illegal methods to reach their aims. It has a central core, but it has many cells that do not necessarily know about each other, and it is using all possible power centers, including the intelligence services of the state.
What is their aim?
Some circles were not happy when the AK Party came to power or about its acceleration of the EU process, so they started work on coup d'état scenarios. We learned recently that there were two coup plans. But Ergenekon realized that this would not be possible. So they revised their scenarios and decided to include the public, also. The society needed to be convinced. So they started to use academics, the media and some NGOs. While they were working on their new plan, they went and met with people from the Susurluk case. They established cooperation with them over the main values of society like nation and flag.
Are they only against the AK Party and the EU or do they have a political project in mind?
As stated in the case files, for the year 2023 at the 100th anniversary of the establishment of the Turkish Republic, Ergenekon was dreaming about a country cleansed of all collaborators and traitors, a country that would be isolated, closed to the outside world and ruled by racism. Ergenekon is the central structure of this big political project. In order to reach this aim, they are trying to gain support from anywhere they can get it, including NGOs, the media, businessmen and academics. They benefit from the military and gendarmerie intelligence units, but they are not infiltrated into the police organization that deeply. Their financial sources are drug smuggling, blackmail and prostitution, basically anything they can do to get money. They are also using factoring companies. For example in the Council of State attack -- though it did not reflect in the indictment since supposedly there was not enough evidence -- they were using a factoring firm.
Will it be possible to uncover this big structure?
Those under detention now are not the masterminds but operational forces that were used for a while. It was thought that they had fulfilled their mission. Now there is a decisive political will aiming to uncover Ergenekon. The Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) is providing implicit support. Also when we look at the gangs in the years 2002 and 2007 we can see that some of them are being protected.
But can you say that all these gangs are connected to Ergenekon? Isn't that paranoia?
In the last 10 years almost 35,000 persons were detained for gang crimes, and half of them were arrested but I don't see them as part of Ergenekon. The main aim is to stop the EU process and overthrow the AK Party. They think that with the AK Party term, Turkey entered into a divisive process and that the regime is under threat. They can reach their aim under chaotic circumstances. If the others gangs are helping to create this chaos, this means at least that they have a uniting aim. So this is why Ergenekon is helping them to flourish. If there is a gang somewhere, public authority is shaken.
Is Ergenekon so powerful as to make Turkey a haven for gangs? Also, to be against the EU and the AK Party is one thing, to be gang is quite another.
It is not a simple gang. Consider that the biggest name so far in Ergenekon is Veli Küçük, and he is not even among the top 10 of the Ergenekon leadership. Of course not all the opponents of the AK Party and the EU process are the same as Ergenekon. But they are a part of the psychological operation of Ergenekon or at least are serving its interests. They are contributing to the process of creating obstacles to changing Article 301. Recall their protests of the intellectuals before the court. When you look at the bookshelves in shops, there are many books opposing the EU process. They are a part of this psychological operation. There is a letter in my book written by a colonel to the prime minister claiming that Ergenekon is aiming to convince the public that their political aim is just. How is that possible? Through all of the elements that I just mentioned.
Do you think that the slowing down of the EU process is the result of Ergenekon's actions?
Not directly, but indirectly. Many things came one after another, presidential elections and the crisis related to it, then elections and later the referendum process. These events led to a halt in the EU process. It was difficult for the government to take steps on disputed issues that are open to political abuse, like Article 301 and Cyprus. The government suspended its efforts in these areas. But in the end if the government comes to a point at which it thinks the steps it will take could harm the government, this will only show that the psychological operation of Ergenekon was successful. The government is not showing fear or hesitation, but it has also been affected by the spiritual atmosphere that was created by the Ergenekon gang. Look at the martyrs' funerals; they are abused.
Earlier you mentioned that there is implicit support by the TSK for fighting Ergenekon. Could you elaborate on that?
If there was not this implicit support, the case wouldn't have come to this point. I think (Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar) Büyükanıt, who will retire this August, indirectly contributed to the operation against Ergenekon. Also the government is keen on getting the support of the TSK. This is why there is a very serious reaction from the nationalists toward Büyükanıt; they are not happy about his impartiality. Actually when you look at transcripts of the telephone conversations of the Ergenekon detainees, you can see the heavy cursing in them about Büyükanıt. Ergenekon most successfully infiltrated the intelligence of the general staff and gendarmerie. I think Büyükanıt is taking steps to have the officers who are linked to Ergenekon discharged. After the military board meeting in August, the army can speed up this process.
Where do the Republican People's Party (CHP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) stand on Ergenekon?
I am not able to understand the CHP because in other cases like the headscarf they are voicing their opinions very loudly, but when it comes to Ergenekon, they are staying on the sidelines. I don't know why they are choosing to remain silent. It is a fact that the CHP benefited from some elements of the deep state. During the election process Ergenekon had a project aimed at a CHP and MHP coalition. The CHP perhaps did not know that it was an Ergenekon project, but I think it was convinced. The MHP seemed unwilling, but it did not object, either. But after the elections the party most aware of the games played on it was the MHP. It refused to wear the costume made for it and played a positive role in the presidential elections.
Do they have any international links and if so, who is responsible for establishing these links?
Yes, they do; it is obvious. But I cannot give any names. Also, when I mentioned the number one in Ergenekon, this is a personal opinion of mine that was established after working on many documents and case files. Since there is no evidence that would be valid before the law, I am not declaring the names of the number one or others who are establishing their links with individuals abroad. If you look at the names of those who have been detained and arrested lately, you can see the tracks. But one thing is clear, they have international links, and these relations are established through some academics.
What kind of relations are these international relations?
It is a war involving the intelligence services of foreign states. In some files there is the name of the German secret service. Some organizations like the CIA and Mossad are able to infiltrate Ergenekon, too, but so far there is no concrete evidence of this. But it is clear that some powers, regional powers or states that have aims for the future in the region, like the US, Israel, Germany, Russia and Iran, from time to time use Ergenekon or its offshoots. These services may not be effective in the central structure of Ergenekon but can use a smaller part of it, a cell of it in a remote area. It is very clear that even the central administration of Ergenekon has some difficulties in establishing its full authority over some of its own cells. The killing of Father Santoro in Trabzon, journalist Hrant Dink and the missionaries in Malatya are examples of it. When some cells are out of control, then international organizations step in. There might be some roles played by foreign organizations in Dink and Santoro's killings.
Is the involvement of foreign services always negative?
I think there might be a partial contribution by the CIA in taking down this organization. But it does not mean that it will be always like that. It is like the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK); it is an instrument that is also used by others. Ergenekon is also used in this manner. When they need a chaotic atmosphere in Turkey, the foreign services use it, but when they are bargaining with Turkey on another project, they might help in taking it down. There is no permanent relation, but there is permanent interest.
What might a permanent solution be for organizations like Ergenekon?
From the fact that the government is hesitant to take more radical steps in the EU process, we can see that even the government is negatively affected by the atmosphere created by Ergenekon. But the government has to accelerate the EU process. I think the elimination of organizations like Ergenekon can only be achieved by becoming a member of the EU. Only in this way is it possible to establish a transparent administration. Being a member will bring an end to the involvement of the military in politics. If the government stops the EU process, it has to realize that the greatest harm will come to the government.
